015 Optimizing When Life Isn’t Optimal - How Leaders Stay Steady in the Red
Episode 15 | Featuring Eric Dwyer | listen in your favorite podcast app | Watch on Youtube
It’s easy to talk about optimization when life is smooth—when you’re adding small improvements and everything is “in the black.”
But what about the seasons where you’re not okay? When you’re in the red emotionally, physically, or both—when the chaos isn’t theoretical and your people are watching how you handle it.
In this conversation, Josh and Eric Dwyer unpack what it looks like to lead when conditions are not ideal: managing your energy like “low power mode,” building margins before the storm, using discernment with vulnerability, and staying steady enough that your peace multiplies instead of your panic spreading.
Quick Takeaways
Your people follow your example in chaos more than your instructions.
“Low power mode” leadership is proactive, not a last-minute scramble.
Authenticity builds trust; oversharing can overburden relationships.
Offload mental bandwidth using technology and a trusted team.
Lead within your means: 80–90% steady beats spike-and-crash leadership.
Community “cooks” slowly; patience and suffering well are part of building it.
Not all chaos is equal: external chaos can unite; self-created chaos erodes trust.
Leading in the Red
Josh frames the episode around a reality most people avoid: life isn’t always optimal. Sometimes you’re “in the red” emotionally or physically, and the question becomes: how do you optimize when you can’t just fix it?
Eric describes the kind of leadership nobody wants to become: the “wartime general.” But he emphasizes that chaos is part of life, and in those moments, what’s inside you comes out—and flows down into the organization.
People watch how you handle pressure
Eric’s core insight is simple: in trials, people often follow your example more than they follow your instructions. That makes internal management critical because your internal state becomes the culture under stress.
Low Power Mode Leadership
Eric uses a practical metaphor: phones have low power mode, but most people wait until they’re at 20% or 5% to use it. He argues leaders should be proactive:
Check yourself regularly (“I’m at 80… I’m at 40…”).
Don’t run at 100% until you crash.
If you set a pace that demands perfection, your team tries to match it—and you may burn them out even if you personally can handle it.
Authentic, not perfect
Eric rejects perfection as the target. Instead:
Be real about struggle in a way that models stability.
When a leader is authentic, it gives permission for others to be honest—then they can learn from how you’re handling it.
Boundaries Without Deception
Josh asks the tension every leader faces: authenticity can build trust, but leaders also need boundaries. How do you share without oversharing?
Eric explains it isn’t a clean hierarchy chart. The depth you share depends on:
Relationship strength
The person’s capacity to handle the information
Whether sharing helps or burdens them
He makes a key distinction: withholding details can be protection, not deception. He gives an example from his family: when his daughter was young, she didn’t have the maturity to hold the full context of what was happening in their adoption struggle. Over time, as she matured, the conversation could expand.
Practical rule: match depth to care and capacity
Eric warns:
Oversharing can be overbearing.
Under-sharing can create distance if people sense you’re withholding because you don’t trust them.
Wisdom is “by feel” and requires discernment.
Josh adds another layer: self-control. In hard seasons, it’s easy to vent to anyone who will listen. A leader needs the discipline to choose a small circle instead of turning every conversation into the “Eeyore door.”
Grounding Habits When You’re in the Valley
Josh notes how therapists sometimes assign very simple tasks to people in deep valleys—because what’s “basic” to someone thriving can be unreachable to someone struggling.
Eric’s starting point: treat yourself like a plant
Food
Water
Sunlight
Then he adds a modern toolset: technology as an external hard drive.
Offload bandwidth
When your brain is overloaded (like a computer with too many tabs open), everything becomes sluggish. Eric uses reminders and tools to offload what doesn’t need emotional energy:
Set reminders for the practical things you’ll forget in chaos
Protect your attention for what needs judgment and care
This increases margin, reduces panic, and helps you make wiser decisions—your people sense that, and it stabilizes the culture.
Leverage Your Team
Eric pairs technology with team trust. If you trust your people and they trust you:
Delegation isn’t threatening; it’s stabilizing.
When you need to miss something, they don’t question your heart.
They can absorb work without their own plates spilling over—because they also have margin.
He ties this to retention: it gets harder for good people to leave a team that gives margin, trust, and mutual care when things “hit the fan.”
Guilt, Loneliness, and “The Answer Is Somewhere in the Room”
Josh highlights a common leader trap in valleys: guilt for not performing at your best, plus the pressure to have all the answers.
Eric says when you believe you must have all the answers:
Leadership becomes lonely
Trust erodes
People wonder why they’re on the team
His alternative: “The answer is somewhere in the room.” Different minds spark different solutions. Your job becomes facilitator and question-asker, not sole solver.
Lead within your means
Eric compares leadership to personal finance:
Just because you “can” doesn’t mean you should
Steady 80–90% leadership is healthier than spike-and-crash patterns
Margin acts like an emergency fund for leadership
Communication Across Layers
Josh notes Eric leads multiple layers (elders, staff, and congregation). Eric emphasizes that layers shouldn’t be isolated. If people don’t know why you’re absent:
They fill gaps with assumptions
Trust decreases
When there’s transparency, people can rise up and handle things, sometimes realizing they can do more than they thought—like a child learning to tie their shoes after watching enough times.
At the same time, Eric reinforces: he stays open. He doesn’t want people to feel they can’t bring problems because he’s going through his own. He describes his approach as taking problems somewhere daily (in his context, prayer), so additional burdens don’t have to crush him.
Peace multiplies
A key idea in this episode: if you carry peace into other rooms, it spreads. If you carry panic, you intensify the storm. That requires self-awareness: don’t walk into someone else’s crisis if you’re not stable enough to help.
Consistency, Trust, and Community as a Long Play
Eric explains how his leadership changed over 18 years in one place:
Early on, he was idealistic and thought leadership was an equation
Over time, he learned context matters—people are “as unique as a fingerprint”
Experience in one place builds a level of trust that can’t be bought
He shares a memorable image: abandoned buildings with “under new management” signs. Constant leadership change doesn’t automatically build trust. Stability does.
Building Community When You’re Starving for It
Josh asks for practical guidance for listeners who don’t have deep community.
Eric’s answer:
Community “cooks” at crockpot speed
Forcing it ruins it
Patience matters, even when you’re hungry for connection
He adds an unconventional point: you can begin by building stability inside yourself—what you say to yourself becomes something you start believing. That’s not replacing community; it’s a small “appetizer” while you build it.
Suffering well can forge community
Eric says he doesn’t like the concept, but it’s real: hard times often cement relationships in a way comfort doesn’t.
Josh adds a practical “manufactured” version of shared hardship: group fitness. He describes how consistent shared workouts can bond people quickly, even for someone introverted who dislikes small talk.
Eric expands it beyond peers:
Don’t only seek people in your same life stage
Multi-generational relationships add perspective, wisdom, and reassurance
Not All Chaos Is Created Equal
Eric makes a sharp distinction:
Surviving external chaos is one thing
Thriving in chaos you create is another
He warns about leaders who create problems (sometimes unknowingly) so they can solve them and get the dopamine hit. That kind of chaos produces turnover, distance, and hidden resentment.
He notes a reality: there may be a group chat about you that you’re not in. That’s fine—unless it’s about your dysfunction.
Simplifying in the Strongest Storms
Josh asks how Eric scales back in peak chaos.
Eric’s process:
Sort commitments into primary/secondary/tertiary as you add them, not in the middle of the crisis.
When the storm hits, you already know what gets cut first.
You still show up with integrity while you’re involved, but you’re clear on what will go when necessary.
He offers a physical analogy: in freezing temperatures, the body preserves the core and sacrifices extremities. Leaders do the same with margin and priorities.
Practical Application
Use this as a checklist for your next “in the red” season:
Run Low Power Mode early
Ask: “What percent am I at today?”
Adjust pace before you hit 20% or 5%.
Give yourself margin for the unexpected.
Set vulnerability boundaries with discernment
Identify “full-access” people (internal and/or external).
Match detail to relationship care and capacity.
Avoid oversharing that burdens people or spreads panic.
Offload bandwidth
Use reminders and tools to hold routine tasks during chaos.
Remove “tabs” that don’t need your emotions.
Free your mind for judgment, care, and decisions.
Trust your team and share the load
Delegate without guilt.
Let people rise up and grow into responsibility.
Build a culture where margin exists at multiple levels.
Lead within your means
Aim for steady 80–90% performance.
Treat margin like an emergency fund.
Avoid spike-and-crash leadership that burns out your people.
Build community patiently
Join a consistent group activity (fitness, walking, regular meetups).
Expand beyond peers—seek older mentors and perspective.
Don’t force it; let it cook.
Audit your chaos
Ask: “Is this external chaos, or chaos I’m creating?”
Watch for turnover, distancing relationships, and repeated fires.
Common Traps
Waiting until you’re nearly depleted before switching to “low power mode.”
Believing leaders must have all the answers (lonely leadership, low trust).
Oversharing to the wrong people and spreading stress.
Under-sharing so people assume you don’t trust them.
Delegation guilt that blocks team growth and retention.
Confusing self-created chaos with meaningful leadership.
Trying to rush community and making it overly about you.
Conclusion
Optimizing when life isn’t optimal isn’t about pretending you’re fine. It’s about building margin before the storm, choosing discernment over dumping, and leading in a way that stabilizes the people depending on you.
You don’t need to have everything to give something—but you can’t be someone who cannot give. And when your boat feels swamped, helping the people depending on you can quiet your own chaos and restore traction.
If you want more episodes like this, join the email list for updates. And listen to Episode 15 for the full conversation on leadership, margin, and community when you’re in the red.
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